Dr. Craig Heller on Cool Hands and Temperature Regulation for Better Performance and Sleep

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Katie: Hello and welcome to “The Wellness Mama Podcast.” I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com and wellnesse.com, that’s wellness with an E on the tip. And this episode is lots about temperature, sleep, studying, and much more. This is an thrilling one for me. I’m right here with Dr. Craig Heller, who’s a health care provider at Yale. He acquired his PhD from Yale in 1970. He did a post-doctorate fellowship on the Scripps Institution of Oceanography. He joined Stanford University in 1972, the place he’s now the Lorry Lokey Business Wire Professor of Biology and Human Biology. He’s held many positions at Stanford. And he’s executed a whole lot of analysis targeted on the neurobiology of sleep, circadian rhythms and thermoregulation, together with on issues like mammalian hibernation, and temperature controls. And this is without doubt one of the causes I needed to have him on at this time, to speak about a captivating…the Stanford cool mitt examine.

And we go deep on a whole lot of these matters, together with how he bought into warmth change analysis, the fascinating means that the mind regulates physique temperature and the way this can be utilized to our profit for athletic efficiency, for sleep. He talks concerning the astounding examine the place they’d somebody go from 180 pull-ups over units…in units of 10, 10 units, to 618 by including a cooling protocol, and he offers some pointers for the way we are able to all experiment with this in our personal lives.

We speak lots about temperature regulation and sleep hygiene, methods to enhance sleep that may be helpful to your youngsters as properly. We speak about mild and circadian rhythms, and a lot extra. He was such a enjoyable interview for me. I’ve adopted his work for a very long time, and he’s in a position to give some actually sensible functions for a few of his actually fascinating areas of analysis. I do know that you’ll take pleasure in this interview. I actually did, and I’m excited to use a few of his concepts to my very own experimentation with athletic efficiency and likewise sleep. So with out additional ado, let’s be part of Dr. Heller. Dr. Heller, welcome. And thanks so, a lot for being right here.

Craig: Well, my pleasure. Thanks for inviting me.

Katie: I’m very excited to talk with you. I’ve adopted your work and have so, many instructions I need to go at this time. But earlier than we soar into the science facet, I’ve notes in my present notes about some superb issues that you’ve got executed. And I’ve to listen to somewhat bit about swimming on the North Pole and the truth that you probably did a thousand pushups in your sixtieth birthday. That’s unimaginable.

Craig: You bought my deepest secrets and techniques there. No, the journey to the North Pole was a Stanford alumni journey through which I used to be the school host and the speaker, and my daughter and I at all times had a pact that every time we took a hike and we got here to a brand new lake, we needed to soar in. It didn’t matter what time of yr. So, once I had the prospect to go to the North Pole, I instantly referred to as her up and mentioned, okay, that is our likelihood. We’ve bought to take a swim on the North Pole. And we did.

Katie: That’s superb. The farthest north I’ve been is the Lapland space of Finland. And we did the sauna after which bought within the…it was 24-degree water, however transferring water. So, it wasn’t frozen. And that’s undoubtedly the coldest I’ve ever skilled. It was subsequent stage.

Craig: It’s fairly a shock. But zero is zero. No, freezing is freezing. So, whether or not you’re within the Sierra, Nevada, the place we hike lots, or on the North Pole, it’s just about the identical chilly publicity.

Katie: That’s an excellent level. And it’s an excellent segue as a result of we’re gonna speak fairly a bit about chilly at this time and, specifically, a few of your analysis round this. I really feel like there’s some base phrases we are able to outline after which delve into the specifics of what you discovered. But I’d love to listen to how you bought into this…sort of you’ve found a singular warmth change property with sure areas of pores and skin. So, perhaps stroll us into how you bought into that analysis.

Craig: Well, it form of got here from a problem or a wager that a whole lot of my work needed to do with how the mind regulates physique temperature and that in fact was work with animals, together with hibernators. And at some point a good friend who’s an anesthesiologist challenged my colleague and I and mentioned, “Well, you think, you know, so, much about temperature regulation. I bet you couldn’t solve a problem we have in the recovery room.” “Well, what’s that?” Well, sufferers come into restoration very chilly, they’re hypothermic, and it takes them and it takes the nurses hours to get them to cease shivering and so they rip stitches, they even break enamel and the beds are virtually leaping up and down with the shivering. I mentioned to my good friend, you already know, “Well, that’s a trivial problem.” Well, no, it’s not a trivial downside. It’s a really troublesome downside as a result of while you’re hypothermic in anesthesia and also you’re popping out of anesthesia, you’re very chilly and also you constrict your entire blood vessels.

You hold the blood within the core of your physique, and subsequently, it’s onerous to get warmth throughout the pores and skin. So, for those who use sizzling blankets, for those who use radiant heaters, it’s very onerous to rewarm these sufferers. So, we bought the concept that, “Well, we could put an arm or a leg into a chamber with a negative pressure, a vacuum, that would pull blood into that arm or leg. And then we could heat that arm or leg and that would then send heat to the rest of the body.” So, my colleague, Dennis Gron, he constructed an equipment to do this. He took it over to the restoration room and, properly, within the first affected person, there was no shivering. It was like 8 to 10 minutes and the affected person was again as much as regular. And we couldn’t perceive why this was unbelievably profitable.

And simply to make a protracted story quick, we finally discovered that it had solely needed to do with the hand, not the entire arm. And then we got here to the belief that what we have been coping with was a mammalian adaptation for warmth loss. If you’re a mammal, you have got fur. We’re uncommon mammals. If you have got a fur coat, it’s nice within the wintertime, however for those who can’t take it off in the summertime, that’s an issue. So, mammals can have issues dissipating warmth in the summertime. So, the one areas of their physique that don’t have fur are the pads of the ft, the tongue, the nostril, the ears, and in primates, the higher a part of the face.

And what we found… We didn’t uncover it, however within the previous anatomical literature, there are particular blood vessels in these non-hairy pores and skin areas. And these blood vessels have been completely not understood as to what they have been for. And what they’re is that they’re shunts between the arteries and the veins. Normally, the blood goes from arteries via capillaries to veins, and capillaries are excessive resistance. So, what this shunt does is it bypasses the resistance so you may ship giant volumes of blood via these pores and skin areas and, subsequently, dissipate warmth. So, you may inform straight away, while you shake somebody’s hand what his or her thermal standing is. You couldn’t inform that for those who touched his or her arm. So, we found this relatively normal mammalian adaptation for dissipating warmth. And we have been simply utilizing it in reverse to heat the sufferers within the restoration room.

Katie: And that is so fascinating to me. Just out of curiosity, why are sufferers so chilly popping out of anesthesia? Is this a facet impact of the anesthesia itself after which the physique having to re-regulate?

Craig: Well, while you’re underneath anesthesia, you’re completely vasodilated. I imply, there’s no constriction of the blood vessels. And additionally, working rooms are usually chilly so the surgeons and the nurses don’t sweat. And additionally, they’re not clothed and perhaps they’re being irrigated with fluids. So, it’s quite common for physique temperature to drop throughout anesthesia.

Katie: That is sensible. Okay. And so, I’ll butcher the pronunciation of this, however from what I’ve learn, these are the glabrous areas of pores and skin, the arms and the face?

Craig: Yes. Right. It’s primarily non-hairy pores and skin. Now we predict we don’t have bushy pores and skin, however we do. There are hair follicles in all of our pores and skin, besides these specific areas. So, we’re uncommon mammals, however we now have the identical anatomical constructions.

Katie: And they’re distinctive as a result of the blood can go straight from… They principally skip the capillaries, it could possibly go straight from veins to arteries?

Craig: That’s proper. Goes really from arteries to veins.

Katie: Arteries to veins. Got it.

Craig: Yeah. And then that cool blood goes proper again to the center, and from the center, it goes out to the muscle mass which are working. Okay? So, you’re cooling the muscle mass from the within out relatively from the surface in.

Katie: And so, with anesthesia, you guys discovered this innate capacity to heat, however on the opposite facet of this equation, it has some actually cool implications due to its capacity to really cool, from what I perceive? And I do know there’s some superb analysis on this, however, primarily, I assume my top-level understanding is it’s that warmth of the muscle mass that’s one of many limiting components throughout train, it sort of results in that suggestions mechanism and tells us to cease and that we are able to sort of use this similar factor to our benefit within the different path?

Craig: You’re good. That’s an ideal rationalization. Yeah. Absolutely. Another characteristic of being mammals is we now have a excessive physique temperature. So, we’re up round 37 levels, that’s centigrade or 98.6 Fahrenheit. And after we train, our temperature goes up. And we don’t have a whole lot of scope. If we rise up to 40 levels, 39 or 40 levels centigrade or 100, 101 levels Fahrenheit, we’re in bother. That undoubtedly is a hazard zone for people. And that’s referred to as hyperthermia. So, it’s very simple with heavy train, and particularly within the sizzling setting… Think of ultra-marathoners in Death Valley, you already know, they’re actually, actually taking it to the restrict and difficult their our bodies. So, if you will get that warmth out of the physique, the muscle mass can carry on working. And we found that as a result of we have been concerned with seeing what the proper parameters have been for extracting warmth.

In different phrases, what ought to the temperature be? What ought to the vacuum be? What must be the move fee? And so forth. We had a analysis assistant who was a gymnasium rat, and he would go to the gymnasium at night time after work. And so, we mentioned to him, “Why don’t you do your workout here in the lab, and that’ll raise your body temperature, and then we’ll see what are the best parameters for extracting that heat.” So, he was doing pull-ups. He was doing 10 units of pull-ups to muscle failure with three-minute rests. And then on the finish of that sequence of 10 pull-ups, we’d measure his temperature and apply our prototype gadgets to extract the warmth. And at some point after we extracted the warmth, he went again to the pull-up bar and did the identical variety of pull-ups as in his first set and we mentioned, “Holy crow, what does that mean? The fatigue is gone.” And it needed to do with the temperature of the muscle. That’s what we found. So, we then began cooling him after each different set of pull-ups, and his efficiency plateaued to a sure extent. So, he elevated his work quantity dramatically from at some point to the subsequent.

Katie: And I bought to learn a abstract of that examine, and it was actually astounding to me as a result of this was not a small, similar to marginal enchancment. This was a drastic distinction in efficiency even with out a whole lot of relaxation days in between or any of the traditional belongings you would assume could be essential.

Craig: So, simply to provide the numbers, in that one specific preliminary discovery, after we began cooling him after each different set of pull-ups, he went from a complete of 180 pull-ups, which is already superb, to 618 pull-ups in 10 units. It’s outstanding.

Katie: That actually, actually is astounding. That’s nearly what…nearly a 4X inference, which actually speaks to primarily understanding that it’s not essentially the muscle energy that’s the limiting consider these exercises, it’s that warmth. And from what we are able to inform within the information, is that this a secure technique to really manipulate that, like cooling the physique really lets the physique safely carry out at that stage?

Craig: Right. You can’t decrease the physique temperature…why this system… These vessels will shut down if it will get too chilly. That’s why placing your hand in a bucket of ice water gained’t work. It simply shuts down the warmth loss. So, it’s secure, from that regard, you may’t induce hypothermia. So, the hazard is that for those who get to too excessive ranges of efficiency, you really begin doing harm to your tendons and ligaments. So, it’s good to have coaches and trainers to guard in opposition to that. But that’s on the excessive finish.

Katie: And most likely most of us in regular on a regular basis exertion aren’t hitting the higher limits of athletic capacity. This is only a actually superb instrument. And I’d guess additionally, has simply vital implications to grasp for the extra excessive instances as properly. Like, for example, somebody who’s hypothermic, you discovered, you may heat them. If somebody is having perhaps warmth stroke, I’d guess the identical is true, the simplest technique to cool them is to chill the arms, ft, and face, however not overcool it. So, not ice water however cool water?

Craig: Absolutely. You have it. And though that is for athletic coaching… So, you talked about growing energy. Well, that’s for certain. What occurs is that while you enhance your exercise, you enhance your work quantity, the result’s a conditioning impact. This reaching of 618 pull-ups, that was over a interval of perhaps six weeks…six to eight weeks. But what you see is you see every day, you’ll be able to perform a little bit extra after which the remainder durations between bouts of train, that’s while you get the hypertrophy of the muscle, the improved conditioning. So, you undoubtedly have impact. I had a bunch of freshman ladies who have been doing an experiment that was a part of a seminar they have been in. So, we had them doing pushups. And a few of these freshman ladies, not athletes, they bought to over 800 pushups. And they got here in at some point and so they mentioned, “Dr. Heller, you cost us a lot of money.” Why? “We had a formal dance this weekend. We all had to buy new sleeveless dresses.”

Katie: That’s so humorous. And I’m curious, do we now have any finest practices primarily based on the analysis you’ve executed of the perfect methods to include this? I work with some athletes in growing their athletic efficiency, I’m additionally personally on a journey of getting stronger and weightlifting, after which I’ve children who’re athletes. So, it makes me curious of, how can we use this in our personal lives? Like, are there finest practices for the way lengthy, or what temperature, or what that protocol appears to be like like?

Craig: Yes, there are. First of all, you would test… We’re simply popping out with a brand new machine that can be accessible that’s now in form of beta testing in numerous athletic groups, and with athletes, and with firefighters, and with navy particular forces. But you may test it out on the web site, coolmitt.com, C-O-O-L-M-I-T-T.com. And that provides you an thought of what’s accessible now or will quickly be accessible and the way it’s finest used.

But temperature is essential. So, for athletes or individuals which are understanding usually, we form of set the temperature between 12 and 15 levels centigrade, temperature of the water. But, for some individuals, that’s too chilly. So, an instance is we’ve labored with a whole lot of a number of sclerosis sufferers. And people with a number of sclerosis will be very temperature-sensitive. If the temperature goes up somewhat bit, both the room temperature, the outside temperature, or the physique temperatures, their signs are exacerbated. And with these people, the cooling enormously reduces their signs. They can return to regular functioning and never have to remain in air-conditioned locations. But, for them, for those who cool their palm or surfaces, these palms of the arms, under about 23 levels centigrade, then they are going to vasoconstrict. So, for these people normally about 20 levels was an excellent temperature.

Katie: Okay. So, sort of a rudimentary technique to experiment with this seems like it might be to have cool water in that temperature vary and a cooler or one thing and check out placing the arms in between units or sprints or exercises?

Craig: So, that’s primarily like faucet water. Okay? Let me return to one thing you talked about about security. I feel that is actually an vital subject as a result of yearly there are highschool athletes that go into heatstroke within the late summer season, early fall, with athletic practices. Now, in each single college, you have got defibrillators, however what number of college students get coronary heart assaults? None. But many, many go into warmth sickness or warmth stroke yearly. And there are even fatalities because of heatstroke as a consequence of apply..not competitors, however apply.

So, I feel worrying about methods of quickly cooling these people is essential. Now, the advice for National Collegiate Athletic Association is immersion in chilly water. And that completely works. That’s advantageous for those who immerse the entire physique in chilly water, however you don’t essentially have chilly water tub accessible each place. Whereas, for those who assault the glabrous pores and skin, you may apply it instantly. Even at first contact with the affected person, you may apply it and it’ll deliver them again.

Katie: Yeah. And a few follow-ups associated to this, simply from a share perspective, I take into consideration like, while you take a look at another substance that we are able to use for athletic efficiency, even steroids, you’re not getting this sort of enhancements. And this can be a secure, non-invasive, non-injectable, non-supplement temperature regulation, and also you’re not even speaking about excessive temperature. So, even earlier than that is extra mainstream adopted, which I agree with you, this must be in faculties, it’s a factor I really feel like as people and oldsters, we are able to implement to assist our children and to assist ourselves with coaching.

Craig: Yeah. Absolutely. And you set your finger proper on the essential button, persons are keen to strive all kinds of issues that aren’t good for them. Performance-enhancing medication, they’re completely unhealthy information. And this really is way more efficacious than performance-enhancing medication. Now, you talked about weight lifting, and we’re speaking about that form of energy conditioning, nevertheless it’s additionally true for endurance sports activities. Now, with the present gadgets that we’ve constructed, we are able to’t take them open air and use them repeatedly. We can use them episodically. But we’re within the technique of designing and constructing wearable programs. And this can be essential, for instance, for firefighters. And additionally, we bought onto this as a result of we bought emails from Ebola staff in Sierra Leone. They mentioned, you already know, “We have to take care of these patients, and we go into the hot zone in our PPE, personal protective equipment, and we can’t be in there for more than 15, 20 minutes. So, isn’t there something you can do?” So, that set us on the observe of attempting to construct wearable programs.

Katie: Yeah. I can see so many potential makes use of, and I’m actually excited to maintain following the work you’re doing on this. I even have simply anecdotally observed, in myself, the identical is true in excessive chilly as properly. Not within the working room, however I really like doing chilly plunges typically for athletic restoration, and I’ve discovered that it’s my arms and my ft that restrict how lengthy I can get in there. And once I put on scuba gloves, like neoprene socks and gloves, I can get a lot extra muscle profit with out feeling as chilly and with out hitting that shiver level as quickly.

Craig: Right. So, I wager while you come out, in a few minutes, you begin shivering. Yeah. So, what’s occurring is you’re shedding warmth from your entire peripheral tissue, your legs, your arms, and so forth. And then while you get out, your physique begins sending blood again into these limbs and it comes again into the core of your physique chilly. And then that’s while you see the extreme shivering.

Katie: That is sensible. And, clearly, we’ve gotten to delve into the athletic and efficiency advantages of this, however there’s a lot extra associated to temperature than simply athletic efficiency. And I do know you’ve executed analysis in different areas as properly and that there’s some crossover right here into the sleep world, which I feel can be an excellent segue. I do know I’m an enormous fan of sleeping with a chili pad, which cools my sleep setting. And there’s to be some well-established information on sleep temperature affecting issues like deep sleep, for example, and sleep period and variety of wake-ups. But let’s simply begin broad and speak somewhat bit about your sleep analysis as properly.

Craig: Well, the sleep analysis is sort of different. And very long time in the past, we did analysis on temperature and sleep, and what occurs to our regulation of physique temperature throughout sleep. Most not too long ago, my sleep analysis has to do with the function of sleep and circadian rhythms in studying in reminiscence. And particularly, we’re engaged on down syndrome, which is a situation that’s very, very…it’s the most typical genetic reason behind cognitive mental incapacity. And so, we’ve been working in that space. But going again to temperature, one of many fascinating issues that was our first discovery was that, you already know, we now have two sleep states. We have REM sleep, speedy eye motion sleep, which is one we now have vivid goals and nightmares. Okay? And then we now have non-rapid eye motion sleep, which is about 80% of our sleep.

And one of many fascinating issues we discovered a very long time in the past was that in REM sleep, we don’t regulate our physique temperature. The inner thermostat is turned off. That is only a facet remark. During non-REM sleep, we do regulate our physique temperature, however at a decrease stage than throughout wake. So, the thermostat within the mind is ready to a decrease stage while you fall asleep. Now, for those who fall asleep and also you’re feeling cool within the night, which is probably going, you’ll pull on a number of covers. Okay? And quarter-hour later, you get up sweating as a result of what’s occurred is you insulated your self to the temperature of your physique…to your regulated temperature earlier than sleep, your thermostat will get set down and now you’re too sizzling.

So, it’s true {that a} cool setting is significantly better for sleeping. And the explanation for that ties these two areas of analysis collectively. What occurs while you’re too sizzling in mattress? You stick out your arms otherwise you stick out your ft from underneath the covers, proper? So, for those who’re in a heat setting, that doesn’t assist. But for those who’re in a cool setting, that makes it doable to come back again into the regulated temperature that your mind is telling you you need to be at.

Katie: That is sensible. And I’ve learn how there’s that…mammals have that adaptation of that our physique temperature does are inclined to go up, I feel somewhat bit, throughout sleep, which I’ve heard it defined, it got here from sleeping on the bottom and the temperature on the bottom would deliver your physique temperature down, so we developed that adaptation to warmth the physique. But now we’re sleeping in these temperature-controlled environments, and such as you mentioned, we get sizzling in the midst of the night time.

Craig: Well, yeah. In normal, temperature goes down with sleep. It goes down with the circadian timing of sleep as properly. It comes again up and it begins coming again up within the morning earlier than you get up. Okay? So, temperatures usually decrease late within the day than round midday, however then while you fall asleep, it takes an additional dip. There’s an organization that I’ve been an advisor for referred to as Eight Sleep, and so they make a mattress which is temperature-controlled. But, as well as, you may program it to a temperature cycle that finest matches your physique’s settings. Okay? And not too long ago, the San Francisco 49ers purchased these beds for all of their gamers, and so they love them. They say they’re getting significantly better sleep.

Katie: Having experimented with the temperature regulation at night time, I’ll say it spoils you although. Now once I journey, I miss having the ability to be cool at night time. But from understanding this, wouldn’t it be logical to then assume that if somebody wore simply the cool mitt throughout sleep, it might have an identical and even doubtlessly greater impact, or would you not need to put on that in sleep?

Craig: I feel it might have an impact. I don’t essentially know that it might be greater. The different factor is simply cooling earlier than you fall asleep. So, for those who used it earlier than sleep so it removed any extra warmth load that you’ve got… Let’s say you probably did a exercise within the night, you’re going to go to mattress with an additional warmth load. So, for those who might take that warmth load away, it might facilitate your sleep.

Katie: That is sensible. I’ve observed, and I don’t assume most individuals need to do that, but when I get within the chilly plunge like an hour or so earlier than bedtime, my deep sleep numbers enhance, which is sensible, in mild of what you simply mentioned, however I really feel like most individuals aren’t gonna be gung-ho about leaping into chilly water proper earlier than mattress. So, this may be a better, gentler method.

Craig: Yeah. Right. I feel so.

Katie: And I feel sleep is an enormous subject for mothers, particularly with children at varied ages and what comes together with that. So, primarily based in your analysis, what are a few of these sensible issues we are able to pull that may be suggestions to assist enhance sleep high quality and period primarily based on what you’re seeing within the analysis?

Craig: Well, there was an enormous sea change within the sleep drugs world within the final decade or so. And 20 years in the past, the large factor have been sleeping drugs, all kinds of various sorts of sleeping drugs. And a lot of them are nonetheless accessible now and are used and are literally prescribed for individuals who have severe issues. But these medication have issues as properly. You develop into acclimated to them, and subsequently the doses need to go up, need to go up, need to go up. And they’ve uncomfortable side effects, okay? So, what has occurred within the sleep drugs world within the final 10, 15 years, has been the rise of behavioral remedy, cognitive-behavioral remedy. And that’s used to enhance sleep hygiene. So, sleep hygiene seems like an odd idea, however it’s. It’s what you are able to do to enhance the standard of your sleep.

And there are simple issues resembling have a scheduled bedtime. Don’t simply work till you’re feeling as for those who don’t need to work anymore after which go to mattress. You know, don’t do this. Have a scheduled bedtime. And don’t work, or don’t do issues that you’d usually be doing in the course of the day for the hour or hour and a half, two hours earlier than bedtime. Okay? One of the essential issues is to not use computer systems as a result of computer systems have a whole lot of blue mild. And what blue mild does is, within the night, publicity to blue mild phase-delays your circadian system. So, it makes you react as if it’s not as late because it actually is. Okay? So, you don’t need to phase-delay your circadian system. You need your circadian clock to favor sleep on the proper time.

Another factor is simply keep a particular sleep setting, and that is referred to as contextual conditioning, so that you just solely affiliate the bed room with sleep and intercourse. That’s it, you already know? Not work, you don’t use your bed room as an workplace. Now, for individuals who stay in effectivity flats, that may be troublesome, however there are methods you are able to do it in organising the room. And, in fact, the essential factor is your individual conduct. Turn off the pc an hour earlier than mattress. Don’t attempt to be considering proper up till bedtime after which count on your mind’s gonna shut off and fall asleep.

Katie: And I’ve observed that mild manipulation within the morning additionally appears to have an enormous affect on sleep patterns as properly. And I inform individuals this lots, it’s a free…appears so easy, and it has such a profound affect, simply going outdoors. Even if it’s a cloudy day, simply going outdoors while you get up, begins that clock.

Craig: Oh, yeah. Outside mild, even on a cloudy day is a whole lot…no, hundreds of instances brighter than your inside mild. We don’t understand it as a result of our eyes quickly modify to the sunshine stage. But while you go outdoors, you get a lot, a lot better visible stimulation, mild stimulation. And early morning mild, together with train, is nice for conserving your circadian clock synchronized. Your circadian clock will not be operating at precisely 24 hours. So, some persons are early, they’re larks, and different persons are owls, they have a tendency to run later every single day. But one of many methods you retain your clock in sync with the true world is that mild publicity within the morning.

Katie: And you’ve additionally, from my studying, executed some work particular to insomnia. And this can be a downside I hear from increasingly more people who find themselves seeming to expertise insomnia. Do you have got any insomnia-specific suggestions?

Craig: I’m not an skilled on insomnia in any respect. And the first therapies or the really helpful therapies for insomnia are the cognitive behavioral remedy, organising a sample of sleep so that you just count on to sleep, you’re prepared for sleep, you’re in the proper place for sleep every single day. Now, for people who find themselves actually, actually, you already know, horrible insomniacs, there are protocols which are used. So, one of many issues that’s used is a protocol through which the people are solely allowed to be in mattress for, let’s say, six hours or seven hours. Okay?

And so, day after day, they’re solely allowed to be in mattress for six hours. So, they’re gonna get a sleep debt. They’re going to get, you already know, strain for sleep. Okay. So, then enable them seven hours. Okay. So, finally, get to some extent the place while you go to mattress, you’re tuned to sleep. So, it appears counterproductive to deprive somebody of sleep who has insomnia, however that’s a means of getting their system again in sync with the way in which it must be functioning.

Katie: That is sensible. I hadn’t considered that method.

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You additionally talked about REM sleep being the time of goals and nightmares. And that is really a breakfast dialog not too long ago at my home that I’d love to have the ability to clarify to my children higher, however why can we dream? What’s occurring to our brains throughout your dream states?

Craig: Well, after we are in REM sleep, we’re paralyzed. There’s inhibition of all the instructions going out to our muscle mass. So, the supposed rationale for this, the evolutionary rationale, is that it prevents us from appearing out our goals. Okay? So, appearing out goals will not be sleepwalking. Sleepwalking happens in non-REM sleep. But appearing out goals for somebody who has REM sleep problem, they will injure themselves or their sleeping companions due to violent actions. They can rise up from mattress and begin to run and run into one thing. They can do one thing very violent, like break furnishings or put their head via a wall. It’s unimaginable what individuals can do with REM conduct dysfunction. So, to stop that, or the explanation we don’t do that’s our muscle mass are primarily paralyzed throughout REM sleep.

And that additionally applies to a number of the sensory enter. So, what’s occurring within the mind throughout REM sleep is the mind is reactivated. So, for those who take a look at the electroencophilic REM, the EEG, the EEG of REM sleep appears to be like similar to wakefulness as a result of the cortex of the mind, the considering cap of the mind, is reactivated. Okay? So, that reactivation is unbiased of any suggestions from muscle mass and any sensory enter. So, it’s like placing the mind in impartial. It can simply freely affiliate. And that’s why we get these…what appear to be cheap goals after we’re dreaming, however then after we get up, we understand how weird they have been. They’re simply completely unrealistic. But they might have elements of issues that have been on our minds earlier than we went to sleep, issues that occurred the day earlier than. But it’s a course of, I feel, of free affiliation of data within the mind, not constrained by sensory suggestions from muscle mass and joints and from eyes and ears, and so forth.

Katie: And I don’t know if that is true, you may verify or deny for me, however I’ve learn that typically while you’re falling asleep and you’ve got that have of like jolting for a second, that that’s the physique sort of testing to see in case you are going into that state of paralysis. Is that proper or is that city fable?

Craig: It’s most likely a fable. And the reason being that besides in sure pathological circumstances, we don’t go into REM sleep instantly from wakefulness. We at all times enter sleep via non-REM sleep after which after… Well, after we go to mattress after about perhaps 60 minutes, we’ll have our first REM episode. Okay? And then it cycles all through the night time, about 5 cycles of non-REM, REM, non-REM, REM. And way more REM late within the night time, a a lot deeper non-REM early within the night time. So, what you’re fascinated by or speaking about might be this drowsy state or what we name stage one non-REM sleep in which there’s nonetheless some affiliation with wakeful expertise. And hastily, you could understand you’re falling asleep after which you have got some transient arousal that you just return as much as wakefulness. So, it’s that difficult stage between wakefulness and sleep that’s not steady, and that may end up in… Another factor it ends in is an enormous phrase, hypnagogic hallucinations. So, it’s as soon as once more, form of like a dreamlike situation, nevertheless it’s not REM sleep.

Katie: Okay. That’s useful to grasp. And I’d love to speak somewhat bit extra about sleep phases. And perhaps now that issues like Oura rings and trackers have gotten extra well-liked, individuals have extra information associated to their sleep. I’ve learn that deep sleep is a reparative state of the physique and that it’s an vital factor to ensure that we’re getting sufficient deep sleep. I’ve observed in my very own life, like I mentioned, cool appears to assist deep sleep in addition to not consuming too near bedtime, getting morning daylight. But is {that a} right understanding, that we must be prioritizing this deep restfulness, and what are a number of the methods we are able to hopefully result in better-quality sleep?

Craig: Yeah. Well, you simply talked about one thing very fascinating, and that’s not consuming too late. That has one other impact, and that’s weight achieve. That the identical variety of energy eaten late has a a lot greater impact on physique weight than eaten earlier. So, to take care of physique weight, even with no food plan or what have you ever, for those who take late eaters and you set them on a extra cheap schedule, like consuming at 5:00 or 6:00 within the night, you already know, 6:00, 7:00 within the night, they are going to drop pounds even with out imposing any dietary restrictions. So, that’s perhaps not what you have been considering, however there are many well being… Well, let me simply say this. First of all, we spend one-third of our lives sleeping, however we don’t know why. So, I can’t offer you any definitive reply.

I can provide you solutions which are partial, in different phrases, concepts about what sleep capabilities are and why we all know that or why we predict that, however there’s nobody who can say sleep is for this specific perform. It most likely has many capabilities. And we now are understanding that the evolution of sleep is way deeper than we thought beforehand as a result of our major means of learning sleep has been the electroencephalogram. The electroencephalogram is simply good for mammals and birds which have a cerebral cortex. Okay? So, it wasn’t helpful for learning turtles, and fish, and snakes, and lizards, and different issues.

But now we’re starting to make use of completely different metrics for figuring out sleep and traits of sleep. And it appears the farther again we go within the evolutionary historical past, the extra proof we discover for sleep-like states. Now, whether or not they serve the identical perform in all animals, we don’t know. So, we’re just about restricted to learning… For practical research, we just about restricted to mammals, however there’s increasingly more research being executed on different species resembling fruit flies, zebrafish. And these are actually well-liked fashions for learning sleep.

Katie: Yeah. And shorter lifespan makes them simpler to review. That’s actually fascinating about… I do know there’s analysis behind that of not consuming near bedtime and I do know it’s not as socially enjoyable or simple to adapt typically to our regular life-style, however I do discover probably the most distinction once I cease consuming by even like 4:00 or 5:00 within the afternoon. And in terms of like time-restricted feeding, doing that earlier within the day, which… it looks like physiologically our our bodies are designed to soak up and break down energy earlier within the day anyway, and we now have that longer digestive interval the place we predict we’re fasting, however we nonetheless have meals in our physique. And so, giving time for that earlier than sleep. And I really feel like every dialogue on sleep and temperature, I’d be remiss to not ask, and I’ve a be aware to ask you about hibernation and bears. I do know, completely a deviation, however I’m so curious simply to listen to somewhat bit about that.

Craig: Oh, yeah. So, I’ve executed a whole lot of work in my profession on hibernators, however nearly all small hibernators, as a result of you may keep them within the lab. So, floor squirrels and chipmunks, and hamsters, and so forth. And we’ve executed lots to indicate that hibernation is basically an evolutionary extension of sleep. That downward regulation of physique temperature throughout sleep is exaggerated in hibernators. And the opposite factor which isn’t exaggerated however dampened is the circadian system. Because the circadian system capabilities to wake us up, it helps alertness relatively than sleep. So, there are animals that go into toper every day, so their circadian system remains to be waking them up on the finish of the sleep part. But in different animals which are true hibernators, they are going to go into toper for a lot of days, perhaps seven, eight days.

So, what we present in these animals is that the circadian system is dampened means, means, means down. So, in a few of them, it nonetheless continues to perform and may very well be what brings them out of hibernation each seven days or so. But the query was at all times, what about bears? You know, individuals have argued whether or not bears hibernate or not. So, certain, they disappear within the winter, they go into their winter dens, however there was some proof that they have been nonetheless pretty heat. They weren’t actually in deep hibernation. So, fairly a number of years in the past, some colleagues and I made a decision we have been gonna reply this query. And one among my colleagues, Brian Barnes, was at University of Alaska the place bears are frequent. So, what we did is we constructed a facility at University of Alaska the place we might hold bears over winter, and we might instrument them with EEG and EMG. So, electroencephalogram, electromyogram, electrooculogram, physique temperature, metabolism, and so forth and so forth, and examine all of them winter lengthy.

And it’s true that they… Where did the bears come from? There’s a “three strikes you’re out” regulation in Alaska that if a bear is an issue bear and it comes right into a neighborhood, it is going to be trapped and brought away and launched. Well, it’s collared then, so that they know who’s who. And if the bear comes again 3 times then it’s eradicated, it’s euthanized. So, we requested the Alaska Fish and Game to allow us to have a few these bears every winter. So, over time, we’ve studied 18 bears. And this is a gigantic, monumental quantity of knowledge as a result of, you already know, EEG is one thing which is being collected on a frequency of lower than a second, you already know, many instances per second. So, you may think about the quantity of recordings, the info information. So, we’re analyzing all of that now.

But what we discovered is the bears do go into toper, however they go down solely to about 32, 33 levels physique temperature. They don’t have these periodic arousals in the course of the winter just like the small hibernators do each 5, 6, 7 days, they arrive out of hibernation and return in once more. The different factor that’s fascinating is that the small hibernators, as they enter hibernation, they lose REM sleep. They have then nearly steady what appears to be steady with non-REM sleep. And the bears have REM and non-REM sleep throughout hibernation. And the opposite factor is that they lose their circadian rhythms. During the hibernation season, they not have a circadian rhythm and within the spring, that begins to come back again. So, these are the kinds of issues we’re studying concerning the bears.

Katie: That’s so fascinating and doubtless very enjoyable analysis to get to do. That sounds thrilling.

Craig: Yeah. And it might have essential medical functions afterward as a result of within the induction of hypothermia, might be a priceless process to have the ability to use on stroke victims, coronary heart assault victims, individuals who have had traumatic accidents. But there’s lots we don’t learn about how the human physique capabilities at low temperature. So, if we learn the way the bears, one other huge mammal, how the bears have tailored to perform at a decrease temperature, that might have medical functions.

Katie: Well, I’m excited to maintain following your analysis on that. And a number of questions I wanna be certain we now have time to get via, you talked about your analysis on studying and reminiscence, and I’d love to simply hear what the purpose is with that and the present state of what you’re associated to studying and reminiscence.

Craig: Well, we got here to this due to a graduate scholar of a colleague. His title is Fabian Fernandez. He’s now a professor at University of Arizona and he began investigating studying and reminiscence in a mouse mannequin of down syndrome. And the mouse mannequin has extreme studying deficits similar to people with down syndrome do. And Fabian got here up with the concept that… And we take into consideration the nervous system nearly as a puppet grasp pulling strings, you already know, the neuron fires, and the muscle twitches. And what Fabian mentioned is we have a tendency to consider the nervous system an excessive amount of by way of excitation, however what about inhibition? You know, inhibition is essential. So, the mind has to have a stability of excitation/inhibition. So, he thought perhaps it’s the inhibition which is simply too excessive.

So, the very first thing we did is we did research of sleep and circadian rhythms in these mice and we discovered there have been no dramatic variations in sleep. And really, their circadian rhythms have been stronger. So, we knew that sleep and circadian rhythms are concerned in studying and reminiscence, however they didn’t appear to be the issue with the down syndrome mannequin mice. And what Fabian found is that if he enhanced inhibition within the mind… There are sure neurotransmitters, the chemical compounds that talk between neurons. There are sure neurotransmitters that are inhibitory. So, he used medication which mimic the exercise of these neurotransmitters. And lo and behold, the educational was normalized. These animals that had extreme studying incapacity have been now functioning like their littermates who didn’t have the situation.

And then probably the most outstanding factor on this analysis was {that a} short-term therapy with these medication resulted in a really long-term normalization. So, it wasn’t simply, you already know, you’re taking the capsule and also you get an impact. No. The short-term therapy, two weeks of day by day doses with the drug normalized the conduct for months. So, it modified the way in which the mind was functioning. So, our problem has been, initially, doing as a lot characterization of those drug results as doable to have the ability to transfer it to the clinic, but in addition, to grasp what is modified within the mind. And that’s fairly sophisticated neurophysiology, which I don’t assume I might describe.

Katie: That’s actually thrilling although. What else is in the way forward for analysis for you? Like I mentioned, I observe your analysis, so, I’m excited to listen to.

Craig: Well, we’re learning now one other gene, which is triplicated in Down syndrome. And this gene, its title is USP 16. So, it’s not United Parcel Service, nevertheless it’s USP 16. And what this gene does is it’s very a lot concerned in figuring out when… You’ve heard of stem cells, cells that may grow to be any sort of completely different cell. So, what this gene does is it performs a job in figuring out whether or not the stem cells differentiate once they divide or whether or not they produce one other stem cell. So, that’s referred to as renewal. So, are they maintaining the inhabitants of stem cells or are they happening the pathway to differentiation? And the triplication of this gene in down syndrome mannequin mice has an enormous impact on improvement. So, the brains are smaller most likely as a result of the neural stem cells have differentiated relatively than maintained themselves. Bone cells are affected.

So, the down syndrome mice have a a lot increased stage of osteoporosis-like signs, and that’s improved by eliminating this specific triplication. The different method we’re taking is wanting on the… There’s one other gene which may be very essential, which is triplicated and that’s what’s referred to as the amyloid precursor protein gene. It’s very a lot concerned in Alzheimer’s illness. And people with down syndrome have early-onset Alzheimer’s, so we’re learning what the profit is by normalizing the APP gene in these animals. So, that’s the form of factor we’re doing. In the case of the human efficiency, we proceed to review the function of temperature in muscle perform. And one of many issues we’re discovering now’s that the manufacturing of lactate by muscle is temperature-dependent. So, we all know there’s the parable that muscle failure, muscle fatigue, is attributable to lactic acid.

Well, it’s actually extra appropriately lactate, which is produced, not lactic acid. But we all know now that lactate doesn’t trigger fatigue. You can really elevate blood lactate ranges and it doesn’t impact efficiency, however when you have excessive efficiency, you get an increase in blood lactate. So, might it’s that lactate doesn’t trigger fatigue, however fatigue causes lactate? And what’s it concerning the chemistry, the vitality chemistry within the muscle, that ends in that elevation of lactate? What we discover is that the lactate threshold, the edge of exercise that you just begin seeing rise of lactate within the blood is a perform of physique temperature.

That if we begin individuals exercising in low physique temperature, they go lots longer earlier than they begin exhibiting this enhance in lactate. If they begin at a excessive physique temperature, lactate comes up in a short time. So, we’re learning primarily what the importance of that’s. So, it’s clearly a biomarker of fatigue, and if we might use that as a biomarker, we might maybe enhance conditioning protocols. We might design conditioning protocols that didn’t trigger fatigue so quickly.

Katie: Well, that circles again to the place our dialog began. I’m very excited to proceed following that work and likewise to experiment with this myself simply anecdotally as I attempt to get stronger and elevate weights, and with my children as athletes. Like I mentioned, I’ve adopted your work for some time, and it’s an absolute honor to get to listen to extra about it at this time. A few final wrap-up questions. The first being, if there’s a ebook or numerous books which have profoundly impacted your life, and in that case, what they’re and why?

Craig: Well, I learn very broadly. So I can’t say anybody ebook, however I have a tendency to love to learn novels as a result of they inform me about circumstances of the world, circumstances of life, that aren’t in my expertise. So, it broadens my data of what’s occurring in nature and on the earth. I prefer to learn books about unimaginable human performances like Arctic exploration or one thing that’s simply, you already know, superb as a result of that I take pleasure in studying about what the true limits are or aren’t for human efficiency. And then, maybe, this isn’t what you would possibly count on to listen to. One of the books that’s had a big impact on my life is my very own ebook. I’ve a textbook with different authors referred to as “Life: The Science of Biology.” So, we’re now going into our thirteenth version. So, why does this have such a big effect on me? It forces me, each few years, to replace myself in my subject broadly. So, if I hadn’t had that ebook to fret about, I most likely would’ve narrowed, narrowed, narrowed my work and my pursuits and fallen means behind in understanding different areas of my subject, basically.

Katie: That is certainly a brand new suggestion. I’ll ensure that’s linked as properly if I can discover it on-line and…

Craig: I’ll at all times sustain.

Katie: I really like that. Where can individuals observe you and your work in the event that they wanna continue learning extra from you or see your analysis?

Craig: Well, that’s an excellent query. I don’t know. I’m not superb at maintaining an internet site, however we’re constructing an internet site now for our down analysis work and it’s primarily the Down Syndrome Research Center at Stanford. So, that may be pulled up. And CoolMitt website goes to be posting all of our work. It posts already the work that we’ve executed. So, you may entry the scientific papers, the research that we’ve executed via that individual entry.

Katie: I’ll ensure that’s linked within the present notes. For you guys listening, wellnessmama.fm. And, maybe, we are able to do one other spherical at some point with some updates and analysis as issues go alongside. And then, lastly, any parting recommendation for the viewers at this time that might be associated to something we’ve talked about or totally unrelated life recommendation?

Craig: Sure. One bit of recommendation I give my college students is observe your pursuits. Don’t let different individuals inform you what you need to be doing. Follow your pursuits as a result of it’s if you find yourself concerned with what you’re doing, you’ll do your finest work. So you then would possibly ask, “What restrictions should be put on that?” And that jogs my memory recommendation that I at all times gave my daughter when she was rising up and she or he hated it. And this got here from the musical, “Hair,” this previous musical of hippie days. And the quote from the musical was, “Do whatever you wanna do, be whatever you wanna be, just so long as you don’t hurt anybody.”

Katie: I adore it.

Craig: I believed that was superb recommendation. And the opposite recommendation I’d offer you is sleep properly. Sleep is vital. There are three pillars to well being, food plan, train, and sleep. And we are typically fairly good about our food plan and fairly spiritual about our train, however we’re at all times able to sacrifice sleep when there’s one thing else we predict we must be doing. And that’s not good.

Katie: Well, that’s an ideal place to wrap up. Thank you for sharing your time at this time and for all of the work that you just’re doing. This was such a enjoyable dialog, and I’m very grateful to you for being right here.

Craig: Thanks. I loved it. And I really like speaking with you. You are actually an excellent questioner. You perceive what we’re speaking about. Thanks.

Katie: Thank you. And thanks, as at all times, to all of you for listening, sharing your most beneficial assets, your time, your vitality, and your consideration with us at this time. We’re each so grateful that you just did. And I hope that you’ll be part of me once more on the subsequent episode of the “WellnessMama Podcast.”

 

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