Leah Segedie on the Truth About PFAS and How to (Somewhat) Avoid Them

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Katie: Hello, and welcome to the wellness mama podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com and wellnesse.com. That is wellness with an E on the top. And I’m right here in the present day with Leah Segedie, who helps ladies and mothers make safer client selections for his or her households. And she is the creator at mamavation.com. And on this episode, we speak particularly about one thing referred to as PFAS, that are chemical substances which might be present in every kind of family merchandise. We go deep on this in the present day, however we discuss what they’re, why they’re thought-about perpetually chemical substances, how there are over 10,000 within the atmosphere, and the way they have an effect on the physique in plenty of alternative ways. We discuss how testing could be very nuanced, and the way even pure and natural merchandise can have traces of those chemical substances, the right way to keep away from them with out going loopy and a lot extra, very, very fact-packed episode. I do know I discovered quite a bit. I hope you’ll too. So let’s be a part of Leah. Leah, welcome again. How are you?

 

Leah: Hey, thanks for having me on Katie, so good to see you once more too. I by no means get to see you.

 

Katie: Likewise, I really like that we do video now. For anyone listening who didn’t know, there’s video on YouTube that you just guys can really watch our faces whereas we speak. I feel most individuals nonetheless pay attention on podcast apps, however it’s enjoyable to get to see your face. Feel prefer it makes it extra private. And such as you mentioned, it’s been some time since we received to catch up. And we’re going to get to catch up in-depth on a really specific subject. But earlier than we do, I’ve a notice in my present notes that you’ve hip dysplasia and are mainly a human pretzel. So I’d simply love to listen to a bit of bit about this story first.

 

Leah: Okay, so there’s a genetic hip situation in my household. I’ve it, my mom has it. We don’t know additional than that as a result of my mom is adopted, however it’s hip dysplasia. Now, most individuals have heard of hip dysplasia as a result of they’ve a canine. And that canine has hip dysplasia, and it’s a bit of wiener canine or one thing. And so the those who have heard about it are like, “Yes, my dog has that.” And no, I’m not a canine. But sure, that illness does occur in people. But there’s two sorts of those who it’s actually widespread in, Native American Cherokee Indian, and the Sami, who’re in Norway, Finland, and Sweden, and so they’re the reindeer folks. And I completely come from a Nordic, so it’s completely coming from the Sami. And they’ve a lot of it, it’s been written up in National Geographic and stuff, so you’ll be able to Google it. But mainly, what it means is my hips come out of the socket, there’s about this a lot room in my socket that’s simply open. So I can simply pop it out of socket at any time when I would like.

 

Now, once I’m operating, that’s dangerous, as a result of it doesn’t really feel good. But the cool factor is, it makes me very limber. If you’ll be able to think about me being pregnant, like 9 months pregnant, and having the ability to put my foot again right here once I’m stretching. Like private trainers freak out once they see this proper? And it’s completely cool for me. So I’m very versatile and I could make myself a pretzel by placing each of my ft right here. But if I do it, if I get the second up, I simply go ahead, so the one place I need to do it’s within the mattress. Because you already know, I don’t have the…I simply appear like a humorous toy once I do this. But it is vitally fascinating and humorous to speak about. But sure, I can put my ft proper again right here and like a human pretzel. Absolutely.

 

Katie: That is humorous. And certainly one of my…

 

Leah: If nobody has identified me then now they’re simply gonna know that I’m Leah Segedie, the human pretzel, which I discover wonderful.

 

Katie: Well, and certainly one of my favourite journey reminiscences of all time was really visiting northern Finland and getting to satisfy the Sami tribe. They are a number of the most fascinating folks I’ve ever met and completely lovely the best way their way of life is, very totally different than mine in a really heat local weather. And it was so, so cool to see. So that’s cool and you’ve got a tie to them as effectively.

 

Leah: Yeah, I’ve a tie them after which…however I’ve extra of my family that I do know which might be in Sweden, however they’re extra within the metropolis now. And Bergen, Norway too, I’ve plenty of family which might be in Bergen, which is admittedly cool to go to as a result of the fjords are simply wonderful. You need to go there as soon as in your lifetime.

 

Katie: I’ll put it on the record. And I really feel like I may discuss that each one day lengthy. But we even have one other essential matter that I feel can be actually related to lots of people listening, even when they don’t notice it’s going to be so related to them. And I do know that you’ve been doing a brilliant, tremendous, tremendous deep dive into this matter, which is why I used to be so excited to speak to you about them in the present day. So I’d say let’s begin actually, actually broad and simply outline the important thing time period that we’re going to speak quite a bit about in the present day, which is I hope I pronounced it proper, PFAS?

 

Leah: It’s referred to as, you’ll be able to check with it as PFAS or PFAS. But PFAS might be what you’re going to listen to most individuals say P-F-A-S, so it’s simply an abbreviation and so they’re simply placing it collectively. So primarily, once we’re speaking about PFAS, we’re speaking about over ten thousand chemical substances and a chemical class. And all of them have fluorine and carbon in them of their bond. But you’ve heard of those chemical substances as a result of it’s all of the stain-resistant, waterproof, grease-proof chemical substances that we have now been type of swimming in for many years. Now, these chemical substances was once considered protected, you already know, inert, like okay, however within the final couple many years, we discovered that they’re persistent, which suggests they don’t go away. Scientists don’t even know what the half-life of those chemical substances are. That’s why they’re known as perpetually chemical substances. These perpetually chemical substances can final in your physique for a few years or many years. They simply actually don’t know the extent of all of it and why as a result of there’s 10,000 of them and the unbiased scientists who had been coming within the backend attempting to see in the event that they’re protected, it’s been quite a bit and lot plenty of dangerous information. So in case you’ve heard about carpet not having PFAS in it anymore, or clothes corporations popping out and, you already know, engaged on PFAS options, or you probably have thrown out your Teflon cookware, that’s one other instance. Those are all examples of PFAS chemical substances that we have now had in our lives for many years. And now we perceive how extremely problematic they’re.

 

So what I’m doing proper now’s, and thru Mamavation, is admittedly attempting to construct up some consciousness round ladies, in order that they know what to search for and know the right way to keep away from them. And the toughest a part of this example is it’s inconceivable to fully keep away from them. You must stay…you couldn’t even go to, I imply, Iceland, or the place the polar bears are, you’d nonetheless discover them there. So you actually can’t keep away from them. That’s as a result of they’re persistent, and so they get in all places. But what we are able to do is we are able to make educated selections and selections in our house, and decrease the quantity that we’re uncovered to, and most of all our youngsters are uncovered to as a result of that’s the place that is actually, actually essential is the following technology.

 

Katie: Yeah, I do know, we’re very aligned on that, and the significance of, in lots of areas, bettering issues for our youngsters. What are a number of the problematic areas we see with regards to these and well being? I do know, like, we’re nonetheless doing analysis on this and, such as you mentioned, plenty of this analysis is barely within the final couple of many years. But what do we all know so far as how this impacts human well being?

 

Leah: So initially, it’s an androgen mimicker. So it goes into your physique and your physique really thinks it’s a hormone for males. It thinks it’s testosterone, so it thinks it’s androgen. So for boys, little boys and males, that is worse than for ladies, it’s actually dangerous for ladies, however it’s worse for males. So simply give it some thought by way of that, you don’t want additional testosterone in your physique. But in case you’re a person, and also you get additional testosterone in your physique, your physique says, “Okay, done, I’ve produced enough.” And so for a person, it brings down your testosterone, which is one thing that’s actually dangerous in case you’re attempting to have a child, otherwise you’re attempting to breed, you already know. The different factor that it does, it’s actually problematic, that’s linked with the whole lot else is it kills your immune system, primarily, it brings down your immunity so that you just can’t combat off ailments.

 

Now, right here’s an instance of one thing of how that is occurring. Now, I don’t know the way many individuals are professional or anti-vaccine or no matter. But what I’ll say, and that is very, very, very sound science, that the extra PFAS you’ve got in your system, the much less possible vaccinations will work inside your physique as a result of it’s bringing down your immune system, your physique simply can’t do it. So that’s a number of the stuff that they’re discovering, oh, inside the final three, 4 years is that they’re taking a look at infants, and the way infants reply. And I don’t know in the event that they’ve performed this in adults, however they’ve positively performed in youngsters. And they know that the extra you’ve got in your physique, and keep in mind, this could occur in utero since you’re pregnant, the much less possible you’ll be able to reply to one thing like a vaccine, or some other sort of medicine that’s like that, that’s purported to deliver up your immune system. So that’s one factor you actually need to watch out about.

 

They’re additionally linking it to metabolism points and sort 2 diabetes. So they’re linking it to sort 2 diabetes, particularly in ladies. So there’s plenty of ladies strolling round who’re having points and it could have one thing to do with the quantity of PFAS that they’ve of their system. And then, in fact, cancers, there’s plenty of cancers that is linked to, like prostate most cancers and people sorts of issues, which is sensible in case you notice it really works like an artificial androgen in your physique. So that’s type of the totality of it. The downside that we’re actually, actually coping with is, you already know, what’s occurring to us can be occurring to the earth. It’s persistent on the market, it’s getting within the soil, it’s getting within the groundwater, it’s getting in our client merchandise, it’s getting in all types of issues.

 

And so to be conscious that that is on the market, however not petrified, proper, since you don’t need to stress your self out to the quantity that you just’re making your self sick, proper? But on the planet of, these are chemical substances that I need to keep away from, this can be a 10, and this is sort of a 3, PFAS is increased up there, it’s extra of an 8, 9, or 10 is what I’d take a look at first earlier than you determine some…I don’t know, in case you’re frightened about one thing like sodium benzoate in your shampoo versus PFAS in one thing, don’t even fear concerning the sodium benzoate. You know what I imply? Like, these sorts of issues. That’s a much bigger class that you just simply need to keep away from.

 

Katie: Yeah. So many essential factors I feel you’ve simply made. And I feel what I’d simply spotlight is whether or not individuals are in favor of vaccines or they’re not, I feel that’s its personal separate dialog, however the essential similarity there’s that in each circumstances, whether or not you’re speaking pure immunity or vaccine immunity, you want a functioning immune system to create that impact. And so I really feel like that’s really a commonality. It’s really easy for that to change into a polarizing subject. But in each circumstances, it’s like how will we assist the immune system in pure methods in both of these circumstances, and that’s one thing we are able to really all agree on. And so this can be a piece of that puzzle. I consider plenty of similarities like plastic-type chemical substances, as an illustration, as effectively, these are very problematic, they’ve now saturated the planet, they’re storing in our our bodies, which additionally brings up the query, how if attainable in any respect will we get these out of our physique as soon as we’ve been uncovered?

 

Leah: You can’t. Well, right here’s the laborious factor, it builds up. So it’s a kind of chemical substances that we don’t have any proof of something having the ability to take it out of our physique. That’s the laborious half. Right? And that’s absolutely the fact. If folks let you know the other, I don’t know the way supported that’s by the information, proper? So that is a kind of distinctive chemical substances that doesn’t function like different chemical substances, you already know, plenty of these nasty, persistent chemical substances are trapped in fats. So in case you can pull it out via the fats, then you’ll be able to pull it out of the physique, that is repelled by fats. So it simply actually operates very otherwise in your physique, and the reply is they simply don’t know.

 

So what the best-case state of affairs is correct now’s to keep away from it as a lot as you’ll be able to, select merchandise that don’t have it, be very cautious of it once you’re pregnant, after which when your youngsters are about 5, and so up till that, that’s once you’re simply you already know, searching for it, avoiding it. After that, you don’t need it, however in fact, you already know, hormone-disrupting chemical substances are worse throughout hormone adjustments throughout the physique. So the worst time is prenatal. So that’s when the whole lot is altering and it right down to the second, the minute, you already know, issues received to simply align proper. The second half is once you’re out and it’s 5 years, you already know, your physique has like pure defenses it builds up doesn’t actually have that till you’re over 5.

 

Now, the third time in your life, for girls particularly, and for males, is once you undergo the change, proper, you begin to change into a girl otherwise you change into a person, that’s a time when, as a mom, you need to begin to consider this, despite the fact that they don’t care, you continue to need to give it some thought, proper? And then in direction of the top of your life, for girls it’s once you undergo the change once more and also you cease having the ability to, you already know, have a child. And for males, I don’t know when males undergo, you already know, that change, somebody ought to inform me, however I’ve three boys, it could be good to know, really. But these are crucial occasions so that you can begin excited about these items, when these sorts of folks…you already know when you’ve got youngsters in the home.

 

Katie: Yeah, and I feel the steadiness, such as you mentioned is essential, like keep away from it at any time when attainable, however to not the purpose that it’s inflicting stress, which we additionally know is extraordinarily dangerous to well being. And then from there, I at all times consider, particularly once we’re speaking about chemical substances, we don’t really know the right way to get out of the physique. It’s like assist the pure detox pathways in any approach attainable. And then attempt to hold a balanced stress degree and never be stressing about it past that. So I’m an enormous fan of issues like sauna, simply fundamental hydration, consuming meals like inexperienced leafy greens that bind to extra phytoestrogens and different chemical substances within the physique.

 

Leah: And poop, proper? Because all of the dangerous stuff comes out once you poop, you need to do this, proper? I’m speaking about poop and this, poop and PFAS is hilarious. But we don’t know if it comes…I imply, we simply…you already know, they haven’t performed research on that but. But I feel it’s as a result of they’re so overwhelmed proper now attempting to determine the ins and the outs of all these chemical substances. You had been saying one thing about plasticizers. Ironically, it’s additionally a plasticizer. Because there’s an entire class referred to as PTFE, which is on these Teflon pans, which is type of like, which is a polymer. And satirically, you already know, once I do testing, there aren’t any assessments to seek out all of those polymers. So once I’m testing for these chemical substances, and I’m searching for over 10,000 of them, the type of testing that I’m working is extra of a spot examine. It’s trying to see if these chemical components are there, it’s not telling you what particular PFAS it’s as a result of it’s inconceivable. There’s solely about 90 chemical substances you’ll be able to take a look at for at a extremely good business lab. Most of those labs that you would be able to take a look at for will solely be capable of take a look at for perhaps 16 to 30. But it’s in a college lab, they will most likely discover about 150, however that’s it for compound testing and discovering out precisely what it’s.

 

The different possibility is what you see plenty of NGOs doing and us doing is we search for fluorine in any product, proper? And so then you definately function one other take a look at that pulls out the fluoride from the fluorine, which is the pure and leaves the artifical, and we search for one thing referred to as natural fluorine, which isn’t a beautiful factor. When I say natural by way of chemistry, it doesn’t imply the natural requirements. No, it type of means the other, it means man-made. So I’m searching for the man-made fluorine. When you discover that, there’s type of solely two choices. One is PFAS, which it’s very prone to be, the opposite one is fluorinated prescription drugs as a result of 25% of pharmaceutical merchandise are all fluorinated, so these are the 2 issues that I might be discovering. The testing that I function is a extremely excessive take a look at. It appears to be like at 10 components per million. Now, despite the fact that I’m saying components per million, and that’s actually tiny, it’s really a bigger quantity as a result of once they’re testing in water, they’re trying all the best way down within the components per trillion, which is sort of a drop in three Olympic measurement swimming pools, proper? And so mine could be perhaps a drop in an everyday pool or one thing like that, proper? So we’re taking a look at far bigger, and we’re not trying in water, we’re trying in client merchandise, like private care, something that may be burned, primarily, as a result of that’s how the take a look at is, burns issues, you already know. So if it could’t be burned, we are able to’t use that testing methodology. Then there’s different issues we are able to take a look at.

 

But it’s additionally actually troublesome to seek out, and you already know, the devils within the particulars, in case you can’t discover it and isolate it, then can they regulate it? I don’t know. So that’s the place I really feel like I’m type of standing within the center right here. I’m sending plenty of merchandise off to the lab and I’m beginning with merchandise that we might buy that might be pure, you already know, sending these off first as a affirmation as a result of my viewers needs to know concerning the issues that they’re already buying first, after which they need to learn about the whole lot else. And you’d be type of shocked, within the pure trade, how a lot of this chemical we’re going to seek out. There’s plenty of causes behind that.

 

One of the explanations is, like as an illustration, in case you’re shopping for natural meals, there’s nothing within the natural requirements to stop them from utilizing FDA-approved components in manufacturing. And they don’t have any requirements behind that, and I simply confirmed that once more final week as a result of I used to be, you already know, emailing them, I’m like, “Oh, I can’t find anything in the standards.” And they’re like, “It’s not there.” And they’ll say to me one thing like, “Well, you should, you know, pressure the FDA to take these out of…you know, as approved indirect additives, instead of coming down on us.” And I’m like, “I think you should probably fix this in the standards, I just think you should.” But that’s simply my opinion.

 

So it may be in something, primarily. And in case you check out the FDA web site, on what’s permitted for a meals contact sort of substance, there’s plenty of polymers which might be permitted, polymeric PFAS. So which means these are PFAS chemical substances which might be made up of all these various kinds of monomers. So it’s prefer it’s a PFAS fabricated from PFAS, and likewise, however it turns into like a plastic, proper? So we’re going to see this, most likely, I’m considering, since there’s so lots of them which might be permitted by the FDA, that’s most likely what we might most likely be seeing in meals, you already know, sort of producing. I’ve by no means been in a position to isolate and discover it as a result of these assessments are simply not accessible. But I hold seeing it in every kind of merchandise. And I’m actually blissful to do that testing as a result of not solely do I need to know, however as soon as I began testing, all people else wished to know as effectively. So it’s a terrific service that we’re in a position to present for folks at Mamavation. I’m actually blissful to have the ability to do that.

 

Katie: I’m going to go line by line with some widespread merchandise and like, undergo what you discovered on the testing. But earlier than we get into the extra detailed half, I’d love to listen to what are a number of the widespread sources within the house atmosphere that some folks listening…particularly lots of people listening are already extra naturally minded, like your viewers as effectively. What could be a number of the widespread sources and the way can we begin to keep away from it within the house?

 

Leah: So the primary place goes to be you’re going to eat it and drink it, that’s the place they nonetheless suppose you’re getting the overwhelming majority of that is. Loads of this could be cookware, so you probably have Teflon-based cookware or nonstick cookware in any respect, I’d keep away from that. Obviously, I do know you’ve received nice content material about that and I’ve received content material about that, that had been type of shoving you guys off of nano-based cookware and nonstick cookware. So that’s one place. You additionally need to search for it in your small kitchen home equipment, as a result of you will discover it in issues like air fryers, you’ll discover it in issues like toasters, and it’s not on the meals contact floor, it’s outdoors. And the loopy factor about that’s if it’s on the partitions on the skin, if it will get too sizzling, it could disperse into that air so it’s nonetheless type of a difficulty. So we’re proper now working via these merchandise for air fryers and every kind of various issues. I’d simply say name up the corporate, look and double-check to ensure that they’re not including something to those merchandise on the surfaces. Definitely not meals contact, meals contact could be the primary half, however that’s what I search for.

 

Food packaging is one other subject, issues that we don’t consider like parchment paper. I discovered it in parchment paper. So there are some parchment papers which might be fabricated from silicone and there’s some parchment papers which might be fabricated from PFAS. And they, a few of them generally they’ll let you know, however you bought to be trying to see which of them, and simply to type of assist out your folks proper now as a result of I do know that you just’re going to ask me which of them are protected. If You Care, we examined that particular model, it’s the brown wrapper that appears type of recycled, that one we didn’t discover something in. Another Finnish firm, which known as Gifbera, after which one other one referred to as Katbite, which I feel is Korean, these are all accessible on Amazon. So If You Care, Gifbera, Katbite, these we examined, and we didn’t discover something, however we did discover it in Reynolds. And we did discover it in Kirkland, so Costco. So these are meals packaging.

 

But right here’s like, plenty of occasions once you’re going to get this in your meals packaging, it’s going to be extra of a difficulty of I went out to eat, or I’m utilizing one thing that’s processed. So the reply is the extra you’ll be able to prepare dinner from scratch at house, the extra you’re going to have the ability to eliminate these contaminants with out even understanding about it as a result of plenty of occasions it has to do with the processing of the meals in some way, and the way these chemical substances, be in polymers or no matter, are entering into the whole lot. So the extra you’ll be able to prepare dinner by yourself…once more, I feel that’s most likely one thing that you just love to listen to, the extra you’ll be able to prepare dinner utilizing components that you already know about, the higher off you might be.

 

Another actually huge space is family mud. This isn’t one thing that you’d take into consideration. But you already know, your mud is then analyzed. Your family mud has been analyzed at a lab, not yours particularly, however different folks’s. And it accommodates plenty of hearth retardants, phthalates, and PFAS. And that’s coming off of your electrical tools in your own home. So your tv most likely has some PFAS within the wiring, perhaps has it someplace. And when that plastic will get sizzling, plenty of these plastics have hearth retardants and different sorts of issues inside them. Now, over time, and I imply, over years, because it will get sizzling, they type of emit into the air, and these particles are extremely magnetized in direction of mud. So they persist with the mud and so they fall, proper?

 

So how do you get this out of your own home? I’d say simply mud, I hate that reply however that’s actually the reply. The extra you mud, you already know, the cleaner you retain your own home, the much less possible your youngsters are going to be uncovered to this. Now, I can’t cease them from like, you already know, being on carpet in case you’ve got previous carpeting with PFAS on it, there’s nothing I can do for that different than simply vacuum a ton, you already know, to get that stuff out of it, it is going to break down over time and be launched. So vacuum as a lot as you’ll be able to, these sorts of issues. Get an air air purifier, a number of the greatest air purifiers are on the market. Though I do know those that we suggest are most likely additionally going to be pulling in PFAS as a result of in the event that they’re pulling within the mud, that’s the place it’s, proper? So you need to eliminate the mud.

 

Makeup and private care, this can be a actually troublesome subject. Earlier this 12 months, they did an investigation not me, however the precise scientists, proper? And so that they checked out over 300 typical, largely typical make-up merchandise and so they discovered it overwhelmingly in make-up, give it some thought like this, stays longer, waterproof, you already know what I’m saying? You need your make-up to remain in your face and never go wherever and the extra we’ve demanded that the extra they put in PFAS. So you need to type of search for issues that don’t have any claims about long-lasting, don’t have any claims about being waterproof.

 

I’d say we discovered about six or seven totally different manufacturers of make-up within the pure world that I didn’t discover, you already know, any natural fluorine on the ranges we’re searching for. But most of even the pure magnificence merchandise, you already know, make-up manufacturers, it’s like…like, I used to be taking a look at plenty of issues, mascara and lip gloss so to talk as a result of I knew that these are like what everybody’s utilizing day-after-day, proper, lip gloss, after which if it’s basis, it’s like next-level dedication, proper? So we simply went within the first move dedication, and in some manufacturers, we discovered it not of their mascara however discovered of their lip gloss or vice versa. So it was actually troublesome to type of be capable of say this model or that model as a result of we needed to do plenty of testing to determine that out. So make-up I’d say, and different than simply, you already know, following me and what I’m testing there’s no different reply to make-up as a result of nobody’s placing that info on the market. Even the scientists who had been taking a look at it, they’re probably not like granting you the uncooked information to have the ability to work out which one they examined however that’s why we did it.

 

Another factor is like water, look into your water. This is a extremely huge deal as a result of in case you stay by a army base otherwise you stay by an airport that is actually essential, army bases and airports have been utilizing firefighting foam to place out grease fires which have PFAS in them and it has seeped into the groundwater beneath and has contaminated plenty of groundwater by these bases. So in case you stay by an airport otherwise you stay by a army base, I’d simply exit and get a water air purifier regardless, don’t even wait. Because the reply is it’s most likely going to be there and it might not be a sort of PFAS that we are able to acknowledge simply but. You know, as a result of that’s the opposite downside with water is, we’re not as much as testing in any respect. So I’d simply assume, you already know, that that’s how I’m working proper now’s I’m simply assuming, despite the fact that our water system doesn’t have something in it, it’s like, yeah, you solely examined 16 of them, you already know, there’s like 10,000 on the market, you already know, that’s how I really feel like there’s an enormous gaping gap. So water, work on water.

 

Clothing is one other huge one, however the reply to clothes is we don’t know the reply behind dermal contact. So I’ve plenty of advisors who work on this and a few of them are working behind the scenes to creating strategies for testing. Some of them, you already know, they’re working at various kinds of phases in various kinds of methods with this chemical. But the one factor that all of them agreed on was we don’t know sufficient about dermal contact. We don’t know if one thing rubs up towards your pores and skin, and it’s a PFAS chemical, will it get in? How will it get in? How a lot we’ll get in? We don’t know.

 

And as a result of we don’t know, we are able to’t make any statements about that. So the reply is we don’t know. But the place are you going to seek out it? Anything that’s stain proof, keep away from issues which might be stain proof, completely 100% as a result of that’s the place it’s going to be. It’s in plenty of jackets waterproof. We did an investigation on jackets, so in case you go to Mamavation…I want I may let you know each single one, however it’s very complicated on the market proper now to seek out out what’s PFAS-free, after which what’s just a bit part of PFAS-free. Some of those corporations which might be producing clothes, aren’t trying on the huge chemical class. They’re solely taking a look at this over right here, and so they say, “We’re free of PFC.,” however they’re forgetting all this different stuff over right here, you already know.

 

And there’s some certifications like Bluesign, as an illustration. Bluesign licensed is a kind of certifications that can permit sure sorts of PFAS chemical substances within the certification and but they type of make a declare that they’re PFAS-free. So it’s complicated for the patron and the rationale it’s complicated for the patron is the scientists have simply type of gotten on the identical web page about the place this chemical is and what we’re going to contemplate as a part of the chemical. So I don’t need to say it’s all the companies’ faults, I’m saying that they’re doing what’s within the regulation, you already know, once they’re making these statements, however the statements are altering as a result of the science is altering. And because the science is altering generally the businesses are two, three years behind, you already know, the mantra, the way it’s described. And so I’m operating into plenty of that with jackets, like play couches, play modular couches, you already know, something like that, that may have like a stain-proofing about it. So simply be searching for that.

 

Tents and outside tools. Oh, gosh, I can’t…my cousins in Norway are going to chuckle at me, however there’s one model that we love a lot. And it’s received a J in it, I’ll put it in your notes, your present notes. It’s like a Swedish title and I can’t pronounce it as a result of I don’t communicate Swedish. And it’s received a J in it and I’m gonna simply completely butcher it. But there’s plenty of European manufacturers that as an alternative of utilizing PFAS, like on their tents, as an illustration, they use beeswax and paraffin proprietarily put collectively and it does a really related or just about the identical factor. These merchandise are extra dear, you already know, you’re not going to discover a low-cost tent that’s PFAS-free with, you already know, extra pure…and I do know paraffin just isn’t pure, however like, you already know, it’s higher than PFAS. Those sorts of mixtures which might be much less problematic to the atmosphere in a cheap approach but, hopefully the long run will change that.

 

Then additionally, you already know, it’s in automotive wax and surfboard wax, these sorts of issues, and carpet and flooring. We did a bamboo investigation, we checked out a bunch of various bamboo floorings and we solely discovered one which didn’t have detections out of like eight or 9. So I’ve been excited about this by way of what’s round us. You know, in case you’re going to be doing flooring, as an illustration, you already know, we went after bamboo and we regarded particularly at bamboo as a result of why? I’m like, it’s inexpensive, it doesn’t dent, you’ll be able to stroll round together with your heels and so I used to be attempting to love, you already know, resolve all the issues after which we did discover one model. But it’s troublesome. It’s actually troublesome to keep away from it, you already know, grandstand overarching, eat out much less, mud extra, and prepare dinner from scratch as a lot as you’ll be able to. Those are the three issues that I’d say would most likely do probably the most bang on your buck and simply look out for locations who…like in case you go to mamavation.com, we’ve performed an investigation on like plenty of issues, not the whole lot but, however on plenty of issues. And that’s the…I’m attempting to reply that query, the place is it, how do I keep away from it? And I’m type of going class by class to determine it out as a result of each class is admittedly sophisticated.

 

Katie: Yeah, that jogs my memory, within the labeling, like, we began…such as you mentioned, we’re seeing some which might be labeled as “free of” sure ones of those, however it jogs my memory of when BPA turned well-known, after which it was like BPA-free. But these all had BPS or BPAF or different ones, that are as problematic, the place we’re now discovering, in some circumstances, worse. And so simply because there are some that label now doesn’t essentially imply, such as you mentioned, that they’re protected.

 

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And I do know out of your web site, you’ve performed investigations into all of those various kinds of issues. And you gave us a family overview simply now. But I’d like to undergo some others which might be particularly most likely relevant to mothers. So I cringe to ask, however the first being, what about, like, athletic put on like yoga pants?

 

Leah: So yoga pants wasn’t as dangerous, really. So that was one of many higher ones. We examined about, I feel, 32 or 33, totally different yoga pants, athletic put on as a result of that was a query I had. I’m like yoga pants, you already know what I imply? I put on them actually day-after-day, it’s type of like my outfit, it needs to be like a uniform. And I do know every day, I’m carrying yoga pants, some shirt that’s actually comfy, and my hair is in a extremely messy bun, I received plenty of hair, so this all goes up in a bun. So we checked out about 32 of them, we discovered 25% of these yoga pants had detectable fluorine within the crotch. Now, once I first began testing them, I used to be testing the knees, you’re not going to seek out it within the knees. How do I do know? I examined to seek out it. And then I believed to myself, the place would I put it? And so I had the lab repeat a few them with the crotch, bam, that’s the place it was. So about 25%. Now, not one of the natural manufacturers, in case you look in…not one of the natural manufacturers that we had examined, yeah, all of them had non-detect at 10 components per million, so that’s protected.

 

We did a like a not our favourite, higher, and greatest class of these 32. The ones that we discovered detectable there within the prime of the what we might not suggest, then there have been ones within the center, which had been artificial supplies so we didn’t discover something in them. So be happy to purchase them. And then for these of you who need the natural model that’s in the most effective on the very backside. Yeah, so we tried to type of divide it in three for everybody to have the ability to determine that out as effectively. So this was not as dangerous, however you’ll discover it within the crotch, which might be…it is perhaps related in different pants too if you concentrate on it, prefer it’s going to be within the crotch. Now, I don’t know is the reply to that. I could sooner or later, perhaps begin testing underwear and swimsuits and stuff like that, however in case you…to learn about that, I don’t learn about these but as a result of I’ve been requested that query. So I’m simply going to let you know I don’t learn about some fits and underwear but. But interval underwear, I do know.

 

Katie: Well, that’s encouraging that there are these good choices accessible as a result of I used to be not going to be prepared to surrender my yoga pants. But that does result in different athletic put on. So let’s discuss sports activities bras after which, because you talked about it, additionally interval underwear.

 

Leah: Yeah, so sports activities bras are fairly problematic. We discovered…so you already know your sports activities bra, there’s just like the outer a part of it after which there’s the interior half. So the interior half is that, like, type of pores and skin colour mesh that’s subsequent to your bra, which might be subsequent to your breast. We discovered detections in 65% of sports activities bras in that mesh space. And once I informed my advisors about this, plenty of them they had been pediatricians that had been, you already know, serving to me overview this one particular one, they had been involved and extra of our advisors had been involved as a result of that is the mesh that’s proper up towards your breasts. Now, right here’s the state of affairs I’m considering of as a result of this was my life and nonetheless might be my life. You know, you’re a brand new mother, proper, and your child goes down for a nap, and so what do you do? You run off and also you do a exercise or one thing like that as greatest as you’ll be able to and you already know you’ve received like 40 minutes to an hour, proper? So you’re figuring out, figuring out, after which sweating up a storm and you bought your sports activities bra on after which, you hear the noise, proper, and also you’re like, “Shoot,” didn’t get the time, so that you didn’t have time for a bathe. So then you definately run upstairs, you go get the newborn, and increase, breastfeed. That’s the state of affairs I’m frightened about.

 

So in case you are a breastfeeding mom, please watch out and take a look at my investigation for the not our favourite, higher, and greatest. We discovered them in 65% of those merchandise, it was not the whole lot. It was laborious due to the high-impact bras, there weren’t as many good high-impact bras, however certainly one of them that I did discover that I feel individuals are going to be enthusiastic about is Target. Target has really been doing plenty of work on PFAS and textiles and you possibly can inform as a result of once I examined towards that, they got here out clear. So in case you’re an enormous busted girl, which I’m, my ladies are fairly giant…If you’re an enormous busted girl you don’t need, like, black eyes whilst you’re figuring out, proper, Target’s a kind of manufacturers. It’s not natural, clearly, it’s filled with artificial polyester and yada, yada, yada, however we didn’t discover detectable PFAS within the sports activities bras there. So they’re referred to as All In Motion or one thing like that, in order that was good. And generally I simply hold testing till I discover one thing that I can put on, you already know, and that was a kind of points the place I simply stored testing. That was sports activities bras. So that’s one you need to look on mamavation.com. If you go there, we’ve received the entire assessments listed proper there on all of the manufacturers that we discovered.

 

Katie: What about interval underwear? This is once I personally don’t have any expertise with as a result of I’m an enormous fan of the menstrual cup as an alternative for the sustainability, which I do know interval underwear are as effectively, however what did you discover when it got here to those?

 

Leah: It was fairly dangerous really once we regarded into interval underwear, we had…I’m attempting to recollect what number of we examined, it was over 20. I feel we solely discovered six manufacturers with out detectable ranges. Yeah, solely six, and the toughest half the place there are some manufacturers that truly market themselves as PFAS-free. I’m not gonna say which model it’s however it’s your decision to have the ability to determine that out, you’ll go on their web site, and they’re going to present you scientific testing on how they will show that they’re PFAS-free. But it’s important to have my eyes to know what you’re taking a look at. You take a look at that scientific examine, proper, that they despatched off to the lab, the detection degree is quite a bit increased than mine. So I take a look at at 10 components per million. They had been testing at 50, so you already know what I imply, like, I can’t make any statements about that. But I’d say there’s some humorous enterprise happening in that.

 

And the issue is…I, you already know, interviewed plenty of the CEOs that had the safer interval underwear. And primarily what’s occurring is what they mentioned to me is you’ve got lots of people on this trade that don’t actually have plenty of expertise with textiles. Like, they don’t know quite a bit about what they’re doing. They’re nice entrepreneurs, they’re nice, at plenty of different issues, however they don’t actually know quite a bit concerning the processing of textiles. And in case you don’t know, you don’t know what to say, you don’t know what to ask, after which she was additionally telling me that, she’s like, you may get Oeko-Tex material, so to talk, and ship it to the producer, after which the producer can be like, “Oh, do you want waterproofing on that?” And they know that in case you put that on it destroys the whole lot, like all of the accreditations and all that stuff, however they provide it anyhow. And so you already know, in case you’re somebody who doesn’t perceive the textile trade, you could fall into that class.

 

So what I discovered in interval underwear wasn’t ranges that regarded like…there was just a few manufacturers that had ranges that had been actually excessive, proper, I’d be like, “Whoa.” But then there have been different manufacturers that had ranges that had been low. And so once you take a look at that, it appears to be like like extra of a contamination subject than it appears to be like like an deliberately added subject. But I don’t know what, you already know, the distinction is when it’s proper up by your vagina. I simply don’t know, and no person is aware of. So that’s why we had been in a position to do the classes we had been and I consider it was…it is perhaps seven now as a result of we hold testing. And we hold including to that report, you already know, at any time when we do discover one thing, and those who ship me interval underwear need me to check it, simply if you wish to do this I can take a look at stuff, simply hold it in its unique packaging. I simply don’t need you contaminating it. But yeah, we’ve had group members purchase extra interval underwear that they need, they ship it off to me after which we simply go take a look at it within the lab simply to verify we all know out of all of the manufacturers that we are able to see. That’s not a great one.

 

Katie: Gotcha. I’ll be certain we hyperlink to those as effectively as a result of I do know you’ve written about all of those and folks can go search for the precise particulars. So for you guys listening, wellnessmama.fm may have all these hyperlinks. Another related one for mothers, what about ketchup? Because I do know for lots of youngsters, this can be a favourite so as to add to plenty of stuff. So what about ketchup?

 

Leah: Ketchup was simply heartbreaking. Ketchup, the overwhelming majority of the ketchups that I examined, all had complete fluorine in it. Now, I wished to clarify to all people that I did complete fluorine assessments on the overwhelming majority of those ketchup manufacturers. I didn’t do natural fluorine, however let me let you know type of what I’ve been doing. I’ve despatched about 350 issues off to the lab during the last 2 years, plenty of testing. So that provides you an thought of how a lot testing I’ve performed. And I’d say 80% of that testing, we’ve performed natural fluorine on. And once I first began, I did complete fluorine. So I wasn’t as savvy as I’m now to know concerning the distinction between the pure fluorine and the natural fluorine, which is artificial, and also you wanted to separate that. And so, you already know, my scientific advisors got here in and helped me with that after which we began, so ketchup is an older one.

 

But we discovered a ton of complete fluorine in ketchup, besides for 2 manufacturers. We didn’t discover it in Heinz, and that shocked me. So I used to be like, right here’s the common Heinz within the glass bottle, nothing, within the plastic bottle, nothing, within the little ketchup packets, nothing. We didn’t discover it, you already know, in any Heinz product. And then we didn’t discover it in 365 Whole Foods Organic Ketchup. So it made me suppose that that is perhaps white-labeled, perhaps white-labeled Heinz ketchup, are you aware what I’m saying? But then each different ketchup that we examined, we discovered detectable ranges, and plenty of them had been actually near 10. So it was like they had been proper there, proper?

 

So right here’s the reply to that, of the entire issues that I’ve despatched off to the lab, they’ve been ready…and so they do complete fluorine on the whole lot, however then we run one other take a look at and it’s a take a look at for fluoride, proper? And what they do is that they search for fluoride after which they’re in a position to do a calculation to deduct the whole fluorine quantity from the fluoride quantity, and that’s natural fluorine, so that they do this calculation for you. I’ve by no means seen, not attainable, however I’ve simply by no means seen fluoride, greater than two, perhaps three components per million. You know, so plenty of manufacturers will need to say, in the event that they need to say it’s complete fluorine, I’ve not discovered that, you already know, fluoride to be an enormous factor and something, you already know, I feel they need to suppose that it’s however it’s within the stuff that I’ve examined, we’ve not. I did ship two of these manufacturers as a result of two manufacturers folks had been actually, actually…they actually wished to learn about.

 

And that was Primal and Annie’s. And I despatched Annie’s and Primal out for natural fluorine testing after we put this up, and so they had been just about the identical quantity. So I feel that we’re discovering plenty of indications. That’s the one the place I’ve to say learn it, however perceive the testing isn’t full. And I do plan on updating that individual investigation, including extra manufacturers, and doing the entire shebang, it’s simply most likely not going to be till subsequent 12 months someday, proper? And I need to give these manufacturers a while to work on it. So I do know plenty of them do learn about my testing and whether or not…I don’t know in the event that they’re making any strikes, as a result of they haven’t come to me and mentioned they’re making any strikes. So that’s unlucky, however I’ll say in different manufacturers…or different industries, there’s manufacturers making some fairly hefty strikes right here.

 

Katie: So, to be continued, and I’ll put hyperlinks to the present ones so folks can have these as a place to begin. And I do know that there’s extra to return in different classes as effectively. So folks can keep updated with you to maintain an eye fixed out for that. It additionally makes me curious if it’s attainable to get folks examined for these compounds. And I additionally marvel like, is there even a…in case you’re going to weigh the chance and advantages, is it even value doing? We don’t know the right way to get them out of the physique and we all know it’s good to keep away from them. Like, is it value testing if it’s even attainable? Or is it higher simply to know they’re dangerous and keep away from them?

 

Leah: So I want I’d have performed that once I didn’t end that query for you. I’ve a take a look at downstairs, there’s a model new take a look at that got here out. I feel it’s referred to as Empower FX. So I’m going to need to double examine on that. But there’s a model new take a look at the place you’ll be able to prick your finger and ship it to a lab. Now, this can be a huge big deal as a result of it’s not costly and it’s accessible to all people. So let me provide you with some background. So I wished to do a physique burden, you already know, scientific examine. And I had plenty of scientists concerned and we type of talked about it. And what we realized was, it was near inconceivable to do that as a result of your physique doesn’t launch it. So, you already know, it’s not like with polyphenols and, you already know, you wait per week later and also you simply don’t eat them or put them into your physique, they’ll be much less. That’s not the case of PFAS. So it’s actually laborious to check in your physique, actually, actually troublesome to do these comparisons, so we ended up not doing it.

 

At that time, we had been trying right into a lab that was about $1,000 a take a look at. Oh, yeah, loopy. So I’ll let you know my pleasure when I discovered a model who’s doing this for $250. And you’re doing it at house. What we had been going to look into was sending folks to a draw lab after which sending it off to a lab in Canada. And prefer it was all of this, you already know, strategic, loopy stuff that we needed to do. But now there’s a firm, and I need to say Empower FX, and we’ll hyperlink that down beneath. But they partnered with Eurofins and Eurofins is a humongous $6 billion lab around the globe. So it’s a extremely…that’s a terrific partnership. And so Eurofins is the companion on this and so they’re producing these little take a look at kits. So you’ll be able to take a look at your self, it’s a bit of drip of blood, ship it off, and I consider they’re testing for between 16 to 30 totally different PFAS, however the commonest ones that you just’re going to seek out in water.

 

Katie: Good to know, I’ll put hyperlinks to that as effectively if it’s in your web site, or I’ll get that data from you for people who find themselves…

 

Leah: It’s not but.

 

Katie: Okay.

 

Leah: You’ve received it first.

 

Katie: How thrilling. And as I anticipated, our time, in fact, flew by as a result of we at all times have such enjoyable conversations.

 

Leah: How has it been 45 minutes? Oh my gosh.

 

Katie: So we’ll simply need to do extra rounds of this as an increasing number of investigations come out. But simply on the finish, I like to ask if there’s any parting recommendation you need to give to our listeners in the present day, might be associated to this or one thing completely unrelated to all of the mothers listening?

 

Leah: Oh, you already know, by way of these items, I’d say don’t sweat the small stuff, proper? I imply, I’ve been doing toxic-free for seven years now, perhaps eight. And that’s one of many issues that I’ve discovered, you already know, I need to know what absolutely the worst issues are and I’ll keep away from these. And the entire different issues, I’ll primarily based on my emotional wants at that second, proper? And so, by way of like, once you’re excited about issues, don’t freak out about one thing you employ as soon as a month, proper? What you need to take a look at are the massive dailies, proper, each day exposures. So don’t sweat the small stuff by way of, you already know, don’t freak out over some factor that you just’re going to be consuming, you already know, or consuming as soon as a month. So go off to your good friend’s home, eat the pizza, and drink, and the cake and, you already know, take pleasure in your self. Because the stress that you would be able to placed on folks primarily based on being afraid of all these items, I feel, could be worse on you general than I feel the precise chemical substances themselves and that’s what I’ve discovered through the years.

 

And so shield your house, shield your soul, so to talk, from being too afraid. I feel that there’s a distinction between having a wholesome concern of one thing that’s harmful, you already know what I’m saying, and avoiding that since you’re sensible. And additionally entering into the world of it’d being like a disordered considering course of, you already know, the disordered considering means of the whole lot is poisonous just isn’t a great place so that you can be. I would like you to take pleasure in your life. And you already know, comply with folks like Katie and I for, you already know, directions on what to do after which simply let it go. You know, that’s my recommendation is, you already know, management what you bought within the house, exit and discover the world and revel in your self, and take a look at to not let your craziness sink into different locations is my greatest recommendation.

 

And then simply, you already know, attempt to keep abreast of this, however you already know, that is a kind of points the place individuals are probably not contacting their elected officers about this. And I do know there’s lots of people particularly in like Republican districts and stuff like that, they’re not listening to sufficient from you, as a result of they might be doing extra in the event that they heard from you. And I actually really feel like for lots of girls who’re residing in Republic, congressional districts and stuff like that, name them, allow them to know you’re involved about this. Let them know that you just care, and also you care about them, are you aware what I’m saying? If you’re voting for them, and that is your subject, ensure that they know that that is essential to them. Because I used to work for elected officers a few years in the past and I’ll say that when the ladies begin calling up, and once they begin pushing and honking on the doorways, they received their little strollers and stuff, you already know you’re in bother. It’s the senior residents and the mothers and also you don’t need to piss off both of these teams. But you already know, that is simply one thing that your elected officers want to listen to extra from you on as a result of there’s plenty of states and once I say quite a bit, I imply plenty of states proper now which might be contemplating like 200 items of laws on PFAS. They want to listen to from you.

 

Katie: Yeah, I’ve mentioned that so many occasions on this podcast that mothers are such a drive of nature and that widespread coverage occurs when the typical mother adjustments her thoughts and will get concerned and that’s on so many various ranges. And I’ve seen it on a neighborhood degree. Actually, the place I used to stay, it was fascinating, on this state, homebirth was technically not authorized for some time, and a bunch of mothers I do know lobbied and received it modified. But I feel it doesn’t need to be…I feel we frequently don’t do it as a result of we predict it must be this big quantity, this big groundswell, it really doesn’t as a result of I additionally used to web page for representatives and it doesn’t take that many calls and letters earlier than they concentrate. So I’d say don’t underestimate…particularly on stuff like this that pertains to our youngsters, don’t underestimate your energy to vary that. And additionally to echo your different recommendation, be careful for what you’ll be able to but in addition notice the physique is good and adaptable and designed to heal and keep away from the worst of the worst, however don’t let it rule your life or change into worrying. And that applies to meals, that applies to what we work together with in our each day lives, and provides your self some grace on the finish of the day too.

 

Leah: Love you, woman. You’re so nice at summarizing my level.

 

Katie: Right again at you, and thanks for the time in the present day. It’s at all times, in fact, so enjoyable to get to talk with you. Like I mentioned, we’ll do it once more as an increasing number of data turns into accessible. But thanks for being right here.

 

Leah: Of course. It’s my pleasure. Thank you for having me, Katie.

 

Katie: And thanks, as at all times, to all of you for listening and sharing your most beneficial sources, your time, your vitality and your consideration with us in the present day. We’re each so grateful that you just did and I hope that you’ll be a part of me once more on the following episode of “The Wellness Mama Podcast.”

 

If you’re having fun with these interviews, would you please take two minutes to go away a score or overview on iTunes for me? Doing this helps extra folks to seek out the podcast, which suggests much more mothers and households may gain advantage from the knowledge. I actually respect your time, and thanks as at all times for listening.